Daf 82

Untitled Lesson

By Rabbi Lieberman

​לֵימַא, בִּדְלָא שָׁוֵי מַשְׁכּוֹן שִׁיעוּר זוּזֵי, וּבְדִשְׁמוּאֵל קָא מִיפַּלְּגִי, דַּאֲמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: הַאי מַאן דְּאוֹזְפֵיהּ אַלְפָא זוּזֵי לְחַבְרֵיהּ, וְאַנַּח לֵיהּ קַתָּא דְּמַגְּלָא עִילָּוַיְיהוּ, אֲבַד קַתָּא דְּמַגְּלָא, אֲבַדוּ אַלְפָא זוּזֵי. אִי בִּדְלָא שָׁוֵי מַשְׁכּוֹן שִׁיעוּר זוּזֵי, דְּכוּלֵּי עָלְמָא לֵית לְהוּ דִּשְׁמוּאֵל, וְהָכָא, בִּדְשָׁוֵי שִׁיעוּר זוּזֵי, וְקָא מִיפַּלְּגִי בִּדְרִבִּי יִצְחָק, דַּאֲמַר רִבִּי יִצְחָק: מִנַּיִן לְבַעַל חוֹב שֶׁקּוֹנֶה מַשְׁכּוֹן? שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וּלְךָ תִּהְיֶה צְדָקָה״ (דברים כ״ד:י״ג). אִם אֵינוֹ קוֹנֶה מַשְׁכּוֹן, צְדָקָה מְנָא לֵיהּ? מִכָּאן לְבַעַל חוֹב שֶׁקּוֹנֶה מַשְׁכּוֹן.

​Suggestion: R. Eliezer (patur from paying) and R. Akiva (chayav) argue about Shmuel's law, when the security is worth less than the loan.

(Shmuel): If Reuven lent 1000 Zuz and took an axe handle for a security, if he loses the handle, he loses the whole loan. (R. Akiva holds like Shmuel. R. Eliezer argues, for the security was taken only for a reminder of the loan.)

Rejection: All disagree with Shmuel's law. If the security is worth less than the loan, all agree that he can still collect (according to R. Akiva, he deducts the value of the security); Rather, they argue about R. Yitzchak's law, when the security is worth the amount of the loan.

(R. Yitzchak): A lender acquires a security. We learn from "u'Lecha Tihyeh Tzedakah";

If he did not acquire it, returning it would not be called Tzedakah (since it belongs to the borrower. Some explain, the only reason "u'Veracheka" (the borrower may bless the lender, this is not Ribis of words) is because the lender acquires the security and lends it to the borrower. One may receive rental for loans of objects.)

Multiple Choice

What Halacha did Shmuel say?

• If you lend money and lose the mashkon, you cannot collect the money even if it's worth much more than the mashkon

• If you lend money and take a mashkon, you are a shomer chinam on the mashkon

• If you lend money and take a mashkon, you are a shomer sachar on the mashkon

• If you lend money and take a mashkon, you become the owner of the mashkon

Multiple Choice

What Halacha did Rav Yitzchok say?

• If you lend money and lose the mashkon, you cannot collect the money even if it's worth much more than the mashkon

• If you lend money and take a mashkon, you are a shomer chinam on the mashkon

• If you lend money and take a mashkon, you are a shomer sachar on the mashkon

• If you lend money and take a mashkon, you become the owner of the mashkon

Multiple Choice

How does Rav Yitzchok prove from the pasuk that you own the mashkon that you take?

• The pasuk says that it is YOURS

• The pasuk says that the mashkon is in place of the loan

• The pasuk says that you should give the poor person charity and give him back his mashkon

• The pasuk says that you are chatav like a shomer chinam on the mashkon

​וְתִסְבְּרַא! אֵימוּר דַּאֲמַר רִבִּי יִצְחָק, בְּמִשְׁכְּנוֹ שֶׁלֹּא בְּשָׁעַת הַלְוָאָתוֹ, אֲבָל מִשְׁכְּנוֹ בְּשָׁעַת הַלְוָאָתוֹ, מִי אֲמַר? אֵלָּא מִשְׁכְּנוֹ שֶׁלֹּא בְּשָׁעַת הַלְוָאָתוֹ, כּוּלֵּי עָלְמָא אִית לְהוּ דְּרִבִּי יִצְחָק, וְהָכָא, בְּמִשְׁכְּנוֹ בְּשָׁעַת הַלְוָאָתוֹ, וּבְשׁוֹמֵר אֲבֵידָה קָא מִיפַּלְּגִי, דְּאִיתְּמַר: שׁוֹמֵר אֲבֵידָה, רַבָּה אָמַר: כְּשׁוֹמֵר חִנָּם. רַב יוֹסֵף אָמַר: כְּשׁוֹמֵר שָׂכָר.

​Rejection: R. Yitzchak said so only about a security taken after the loan (which the verse discusses), but not about a security taken at the time of the loan!

Rather, R. Eliezer and R. Akiva agree to R. Yitzchak's law. They argue about a security taken at the time of the loan, like the argument about a Shomer Aveidah (one who found a lost object, and guards it in order to return it).

(Rabah): A Shomer Aveidah is a Shomer Chinam;

(Rav Yosef): He is a Shomer Sachar (because guarding the Aveidah is a Mitzvah).

Multiple Choice

What is the machlokes between Rabah and Rav Yosef?

• Whether the worth of the mashkon must be equal to the loan

• Whether you have to repay a loan if you lose the mashkon

• Whether doing a mitzva makes you a shomer sachar

• Whether you own the mashkon

Multiple Choice

Why does the Gemara say that they can't be arguing about Rav Yitzchok's law of owning the mashkon?

• R' Elizer and R' Akiva made no mention of owning the mashkon

• Rav Yitzchok only said it about a mashkon that you took after the loan

• Rav Yitzchok only said it about a mashkon that you took during the loan

• We don't pasken like Rav Yitzchok

​לֵימַא, דְּרַב יוֹסֵף תַּנָּאֵי הִיא! לָא, בְּשׁוֹמֵר אֲבֵידָה, דְּכוּלֵּי עָלְמָא אִית לְהוּ דְּרַב יוֹסֵף, וְהָכָא, בְּמַלְוֶה צָרִיךְ לְמַשְׁכּוֹן קָמִיפַּלְּגִי: מָר סָבַר: מִצְוָה קָא עָבֵיד שֶׁהִלְוָהוּ, וְהָוֵי שׁוֹמֵר שָׂכָר. וּמָר סָבַר: לָאו מִצְוָה קָא עָבֵיד, שֶׁלַּהֲנָאָתוֹ מִתְכַּוֵּין, וְהָוֵי שׁוֹמֵר חִנָּם.

​Suggestion: Rav Yosef must admit that R. Eliezer and R. Akiva argue about his law (R. Akiva agrees to it, R. Eliezer argues with it).

Rejection: No, all can agree to his law;

They argue when the lender needs the security:

R. Akiva says that even so the loan to be a Mitzvah, therefore he is a Shomer Sachar;

R. Eliezer does not consider it to be a Mitzvah, so he is a Shomer Chinam.

Multiple Choice

If you hold that you are a shomer sachar for doing the mitzva of watching an aveida, why might you still not be a shomer sachar for lending money and receiving a mashkon?

• The mashkon may not have value

• If you only lend money to your friends

• Lending money is not as big of a mitzva as hashavas aveida

• If you received a mashkon which you needed

​אַבָּא שָׁאוּל אוֹמֵר: מוּתָּר לָאָדָם לְהַשְׂכִּיר מַשְׁכּוֹנוֹ שֶׁל עָנִי, לִהְיוֹת פּוֹחֵת וְהוֹלֵךְ. אֲמַר רַב חָנָן בַּר אַמֵי אֲמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: הֲלָכָה כְּאַבָּא שָׁאוּל. בוְאַף אַבָּא שָׁאוּל לֹא אָמַר אֵלָּא בְּמַרָּא וּפָסָל וְקַרְדּוֹם, הוֹאִיל וּנְפִישׁ אַגְרַיְיהוּ וְזוּטַר פְּחָתַיְיהוּ.

​(Mishnah - Aba Sha'ul): A lender may rent out an Ani's security and deduct the money from the loan.

(Rav Chanan bar Ami): The Halachah follows Aba Sha'ul.

Aba Sha'ul permits renting out only a security like a rake or axe, which yields a sizeable rental fee and yet does not depreciate significantly due to usage.

Multiple Choice

What was Aba Shaul's law?

• A lender can rent out a poor person's mashkon and profit from the rent

• If you take a mashkon from a poor person, you have the status of a shomer chinam

• A lender can rent out a poor person's mashkon and deduct the rent from the loan

• If you take a mashkon from a poor person, you have the status of a shomer sachar